Baptized in the Holy Spirit

Yes, folks can really disagree on just what the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit" is. This probably has something to do with the fact that our Lord. is bigger than we are. Our hearts are still incomplete, and so they unknowingly still lack some of His parts.

There are many different types of believer exploring this website. Some of these are:
  1. newly minted believers that are not quite sure which direction is "up" yet.
  2. pentecostal/charismatic "tongues-speakers" who walk close to the Lord and diligently make use of spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues.
  3. holiness believers who think that speaking in tongues is a disordered and unscriptural demonic manifestation  
  4. pentecostal/charismatics who get "filled with the Spirit" maybe on Sundays, but otherwise do not give the matter much concern
  5. rare holiness believers who walk entirely sanctfied (in His Rest) with a lowly and pure heart
  6. RCs who think that only folks approved by the Pope are "Saints" -it is a denominational monopoly.
  7. diligent pentecostals who also abide in His Rest
  8. highly consecrated souls who are seldom given reason to believe that His Rest is an even better state than their own
  9. Holiness believers who are proud of their tradition and look down loftily upon those who seem to lacking their sterling character
  10. pentecostal believers who are proud of their tradition and look down loftily upon those who seem to be lacking their spiritual power
  11. contemporary "Kingdom" believers who view His Rest as "His Dominion" -something "the body" will some time be globally and sovereignly endowed with
  12. highly indoctrinated souls who are so flooded by words that they mistake them for the glorious reality
  13. and of course many, many more
Each of these would give you quite a different answer, just as if you would ask a Polynesian what the word "weather" means, he would say, "Well you know, -trade winds or rainy season."  Ask a snow-bound Canadian like myself the same question and you would certainly get a totally different answer. From my experience, all the Polynesian knows is summer -windy or wet.  They get so little variety in weather that they never think to talk about changes in the weather the way us Canadians constantly do.

 The pentecostal/charismatics (#2 above) speak mostly  about being equipped with special POWER GIFTS for service when they use the term, while character appears to be secondary. Secondary does not at all mean that they entirely leave it out, even though His completion of our character in His Rest is certainly left out. The most essential power gift is being filled with Spirit: the awakening of the spiritual senses for a far greater sense of His Presence in a palpable way. The substantive gifts of service involve various forms of revelation and supernatural helps such as healing. Although the public use of "tongues" is discussed the most, it is actually such a minor issue as to be not an influence at all unless it is misused and brings misunderstanding as it did among the earlier Holiness denominations.

But I will let the expert sources below discuss this whole Pentecostal view since it is off the narrow topic of this specialized website. Check out these and as many other good sources as you can find on the web to confirm this.


Assemblies of God

Holiness believers (#5 in the list above), in contrast, use the term "the Baptism in the Holy Spirit" to speak about purity of heart, while power for service is primarily viewed as flowing out of purity.

A grouch's stereotypical view of pentecostal denominations could be:


"they tend to act like the Magpie and bring home anything that is attractively shiny with little regard for its actual nest-building attributes. This can lead to plenty of hollow and fleeting low quality showiness that is excessively shallow and has little idea about holiness."
Some of this criticism may be well-founded, but consider this -if these folks have not been given the same insight into Holiness that you enjoy how can they be anything else?  Reach out to them in their need instead of judging. If you judge, how are you any better than they?

 "Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward." Matthew 6:2 

The Holiness View

These few pages clearly confirm what Holiness believers are speaking of when they use the word "Baptism in the Holy Ghost" and "pentecostal"

One is speaking about being equipped with an optional set of power gifts that can be added to basic salvation, while the other is speaking about a work of grace that brings the essential completion of salvation itself.  The Power aspect of the Baptism of the Spirit is not excluded by most Holiness folks but is interpreted along the lines of  power for a Holy Spirit empowered witness in life and testimony -and power for the publishing of the life thru the person and in and thru the Gospel being preached for conversion etc. (ie: the "conversation" naturally flowing out of a pure heart)

A grouch's stereotyptical view of Holiness denominations could be:


"Help!! Too many lofty WORDS, WORDS, WORDS with too few living exemplars of this greater grace when it is preached.  Tasting helps the hearing by giving it something to relate to!"  This criticism may be well-founded, but before you judge, try to get into His Rest yourself and you will find out that there are real reasons why only a few succeed to enter in these days. Just because we live in a fast-paced culture does not mean that God has at all lowered His price for His best work of grace. It is still your ALL.  Words are a lot easier.

Reality Check
31 ¶  "You shall make the robe of the ephod all of blue. 32  "There shall be an opening for his head in the middle of it; it shall have a woven binding all around its opening, like the opening in a coat of mail, so that it does not tear.
33  "And upon its hem you shall make pomegranates of blue, purple, and scarlet, all around its hem, and bells of gold between them all around: 34  "a golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, upon the hem of the robe all around.
35  "And it shall be upon Aaron when he ministers,
and its sound will be heard when he goes into the holy place before the LORD and when he comes out, that he may not die. 36  "You shall also make a plate of pure gold and engrave on it, like the engraving of a signet: HOLINESS TO THE LORD. 37  "And you shall put it on a blue cord, that it may be on the turban; it shall be on the front of the turban.  Exodus 28:31-37
Instead of bells and pomegranates today, one school of thought say they would sew bells on their hems, while the other says they would sew pomegranates on theirs. Most end up doing little if any actual sewing of either bells or pomegranates since it is more acceptable to merely listen and boast. But if either do any sewing, it is upon the hem of their white undergarment of elementary salvation rather than upon the hem of the glorious overgarment being described here, since for all their impassioned pleas to the contrary, they both omit the robe of blue and the plate of pure gold since as a rule they do not enter His Rest...

Obvious Conclusions
Both types of denomination need to get with the program. Pentecostals need to be truly filled with as much Spirit as they believe in, then find His Rest and be established in it.

Holiness people need to stop fooling around before they become a mere  footnote to tragic "Mainline" history.  First the leaders need to get serious and get His Rest themselves. They need to openly admit their failure, and be seen by others as mere "earnest seekers" rather than those who are already worthy to be emulated. Consider this: if you are a Holiness believer who has not yet completed his sanctification, nor been "filled with the Spirit" -what do you have?  You have elementary salvation together with a belief
in sanctification and unbelief about His Spirit. Mere belief is unprofitable.

 All believers should be aware of their position in regards to His Rest. They should know what they are missing by being acquainted with souls established in His Rest. All established believers should be within His bosom. After this, some attention-getting Pentecostal power wouldn't be wasted, because then, if crowds came, you would have something more to give them than mere talk! The blind would see, the cripples would walk, and the fools would become wise in Christ.

Until then both types of denomination have no business boasting. There are rivers of serious tears to be shed.
"And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God" (1 Cor. 2:4-6)

"Now, Lord, look on their threats and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus." And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness (Ac. 4:28-32).

Personally, by God's grace, I am a diligent pentecostal who also abides in His Rest (#7 above). So I am a Christian whose salvation is complete that also has access to those much discussed and misunderstood "power gifts".   I consider character to be primary, and so cannot fault the Holiness view (as far as it goes) since signs and miracles follow those lowly hearts who believe for them. But fireworks cannot rule -He must.  

There was an old song that said, "Love and marriage, go together like a horse and carriage. You can't have one without t'other."  That is how I feel about His Rest and the power gifts.  They are just meant to work seamlessly together.  And they do. Just effortlessly, as if they were designed for each other...  But unlike many of my fellow pentecostals I am very quiet.  I would prefer to just be quiet until there is something that the Lord would have me say or do - and then I am not shy at all.

Tongues?  I use them silently during times of private strong prayer, but regardless of that I find that I have a completely effortless control over my heart-gate -and He ever dwells in me -and I in Him.

You have seen folks "fall under the power" on TV?  I have found that I don't fall.  I abide and remain functional within any amount of anointing easily, for there is nothing within that resists it.  And yes, -I do see pentecostal folks that make me want to roll my eyes and sigh about the antics they get up to.  There seems to be no end of it, but that's folks for you.  If it's not one thing it's another it seems.(see Protection from Deception)    Not all immature people are small or young, I guess. -even if you have a backwards collar.

"Demonic" tongues? Yes, I have seen spiritually corrupt fleshly tongues (and prophecy) used to deceive others (in actual church meetings) of the existence a personal spirituality that they lacked (motive: to obtain greater social acceptance). Yes, one could say the tongues were demonic, to be sure.  If I would have been in charge of the meeting, I would have stopped the obvious disorderliness immediately before it got worse. But in saying this I do not mean to label all public use of tongues as disorderly.  One has to be able to discern -and certainly not all can do this. Having opinions is as cheap and easy as judgmentalism, but gaining Godly discernment is costly. Just being the "pastor" does not give you this spiritual discernment!  The job must be done by a humble believer who is capable.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Cor 14:21-22

But repeatedly disordered tongues are a sure sign to all -TO FLEE!!!
   (if they are not corrected. If you do not flee, you will see the Holy Spirit in that place do so.  It is a terrible sight I have seen more than once in my years of attending "cutting edge" churches..)

So in review, my view of this issue is that this whole issue of definitions is artificial and unnecessary, since the two definitions do not compete, but are designed to be
distinct parts of one another. I find that with His help, I naturally and easily manifest the positive characteristics from both of the above long lists -without partiality.

For more on this topic see the "Charismata" page on  your left-hand main menu.

Earnest Seeker

 I answer my emails!!  tplumb at telusplanet dot net