Are We Re-Defining The Baptism With The Spirit ?


I suppose that depends on who is asking!

If you are an old fashioned Holiness believer, you will likely define the term as referring to your revered "Wesleyan entire sanctification" and purity of heart.  To support this you will likely cite venerable old authours and seemingly endless numbers of scriptures.

If you are a modern Pentecostal or Charismatic, you will likely define the term as something like, "the release of the Spirit for our edification in faith and empowerment for works of service." -and to support your claim you will also likely cite venerable but less old authours and seemingly endless numbers of scriptures.

Do these two groups read the same Bible?

Perhaps.  Let's see exactly what it says:

 John the Baptist boldly prophesies in Matthew 3:11 long before either of these groups were even thought of:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

So who owns this dramatic age-defining pre-church  prophecy?  Just which post-conversion blessing is John prophesying about?  The blessed Spirit or the cleansing fire that removes all dross?  Are they the same thing or are they distinct?

Marc and I, as well as the pentecostals who have given their testimonials on this website have been walking in the distinct realities described by both of these interpretations for many years now and find no contradiction in this whatsoever: for the scripture above is speaking of two different but complementary dimensions of the same reality.


Pentecostalist Believers
I am a fellow modern Pentecostalist. His Holy Spirit came in overwhelming power to indwell upon my conversion. With a spiritually desperate soul like I was, He can come in like gangbusters with everything the lost soul is ready for, including being filled with His Spirit!

But it is more common to find the initial indwelling to be so quiet that His workings are only detected as subtle beneficial changes within. Heaven and faith just gradually become quietly real. 

Upon further faith, or in some cases, "the laying on of hands" by faithful brethren, this initial quiet deposit of His Spirit is released to become palpable and strong in His working, so that the soul now says, "I am now consumed by His strong working within." Signs and wonders begin to follow and build faith and g
racious fruits duly follow this good stewardship. Some bondages are quickly broken. Most come to express their unspeakable longings to Him in a private prayer language ("in tongues"). The wise will use this gift a great deal to edify themselves. ( 1 Cor. 14: 12-18)

Why did the soul not receive all this upon initial salvation? Was the Lord bound, or was the soul?  I would contend that the unsaved personal spirit of the individual was not as open and desperately trusting as it could possibly be.  This allowed only a limited portion of His grace to enter and perform His beneficial work within.
As the Parable of the sower illustrates, souls come to Him in a variety conditions.  Some are so needy that they devour anything He has to offer.  Many others start out being much more fastidious -and become even more fussy over time until they entirely exclude His Spirit in favour of the world.

Holiness Believers
I am also a Holiness believer, and yet believe all of the above without conflict.  I found that my sins not only needed to be pardoned, but my tendency to sin itself needed to be totally removed so that I could become entirely pure in heart.  I not only needed to be an obedient Christian, I also needed to make a profound personal Covenant with Him so that He could in turn embrace me into His own Bosom, where I can enjoy the stainless joy that is the radiant scriptural promise to the whole-hearted Christian.

Sadly, most who believe this are such poor stewards that they do not get around to paying the breathtaking cost that is required, and so possess only the words and perhaps a small portion of hope rather than the palpable and promised Rest.... Could this have anything to do with living without the power and faith given by the release of His blessed Holy Spirit within?

"Most Christians are like a man who was toiling along the road, bending under a heavy burden, when a wagon overtook him, and the driver kindly offered to help him on his journey. He joyfully accepted the offer, but when seated, continued to bend beneath his burden, which he still kept on his shoulders. "Why do you not lay down your burden?" asked the kind-hearted driver. "Oh!" replied the man, "I feel that it is almost too much to ask you to carry me, and I could not think of letting you carry my burden too." And so Christians, who have given themselves into the care and keeping of the Lord Jesus, still continue to bend beneath the weight of their burden, and often go weary and heavy laden throughout the whole length of their journey." The Christian's Secret to a Happy Life  by Hannah Whitall Smith

Do you see?  I need His spiritual empowerments within so that I will not at all lack power either in my own life or in my works of service.  I also need to live in Him instead of in this fallen vale of tears, so that I may be fully His, and have Him fully mine.

"Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples." So He said to them, "When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one."  Luke 11:1-4 NKJV

So who above has the correct definition?  Both and neither since both were holding on to just one of the dimensions of John's twofold prophesied promise.  One is faithfully trusting to be baptized with the Spirit.  The other is faithfully trusting to be baptized with His Holy Fire that burns away all dross and so removes the wall of separation.

We need both.  We can have both. The early church had both. Both are promised. With both, all your familiar Pentecostal giftings work as usual, but any and all inward struggle is totally and forever gone. Temptation becomes supernaturally distant and toothless. Growth, instead of being a difficult thing, becomes unopposed, invisible and swift; for His Spirit -and your life in Him is now wholly built upon The Rock.  Supernaturally unshakable.  Constant.  And unearthly in Him .....

O - and both you two groups... Try getting along, will you?  You will be surprised at how much you can help one another - if , and only if, you become good lowly stewards first in the fullness of the portion you already claim.

Use as a Theological Term

Adam Clarke started making wide use of the term "baptised in the Spirit" as a technical term referring to entire sanctification long ago. Later theologians followed his lead. In retrospect, I think Adam and his followers made a mistake in doing this since John the Baptist was speaking out of a vision he had before the fact. John saw the consequences flowing from the upper room in a general sense only. He does not mention speaking in tongues, nor did he mention that two distinct things happened there. He does not distinguish between getting filled with the Spirit, and getting fully cleansed by entering His Rest.

John used the term in a general sense, and we should do likewise.  There are more specific terms we can use for both experiences, and we should use them so that the lambs do get get confused. Right now both groups faithfully stick to the view that they have all that was given in the upper room, when in fact they do not. And to add to the confusion, very few "pentecostals" pour their lives out to keep stirred up enough to be filled most of their hours. Holiness believers believe with their minds, but few indeed actually enter His Rest and stay there. Mere intellectual assent is so much easier......

Tongues ---


Yours in His Most Excellent Service;

Tom Plumb

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Comment by Marc Adams:

I speak easily of  "Him in us" and the reverse side; us "in Him". I like to make things clear and simple. But Marc is diligent to remind me that there is yet more to it:

"The life 'in Him' is accurate but only part of the actual Life. The 'He in me' not as empowerment but as actual Life (Divine Life) is why we can live a Holy Life. Because it is actually and for real Him sharing and living His Divine Life in me. So the two aspects of the Holy Spirit for power, gifts, empowerment and then the other to share the actual Life of the Living God in and thru my Holy clean heart, spirit, and soul. Literally 'no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me'! This is the actual "Fellowship of His Person" (title of one of my books I need to get written). As first John brings the truth out in his first few verses, the Greek meaning of fellowship being  'a joint participation in something held in common by both' and that being the subject of his verses - the eternal life that is Christ Jesus our Lord. It is His very Life that we have now in common and only One can live it! So in the consummation of the 'Baptism' we finally surrender, and yielding to Him, let Him live His own Life in us! Oh! how Holy, pure and clean, righteous and lovely is His Life! How terribly Awesome it is that He shares it with us, His children!"


I whole-heartedly agree, Marc:

This pivotal point is one that soon needs to be understood and contended for by all Pentecostalists:

The Holy Spirit within indeed empowers: it can also empower a much greater Life within His Rest!!!  
 
The Wesleyans of old and even the evangelicals of the "Great Awakening" had quite a problem of entering His Rest, and then proceeding to fall back to their previous mixed state again.  This was often done several times!!!  Even the lauded Saintly Fletcher did this many times!!  Why?  It is my personal opinion that although some of these heritage Saints were indeed saintly, they also could not help but become somewhat "dry" at times when they were not being challenged.  Some of them say so
quite frankly.

I have not at all been so afflicted. Nor has Marc. Nor were Lake and Wigglesworth.  Why? He has become our all both within and without.  His Holy Spirit is within comforting and keeping us "wet", while at the same time His hedge of Fire keeps all impurity afar off and Him always abiding close by.

"One of the most fatal things in the life of faith is discouragement. One of the most helpful is cheerfulness. A very wise man once said that in overcoming temptations, cheerfulness was the first thing, cheerfulness the second, and cheerfulness the third. We must expect to conquer. That is why the Lord said so often to Joshua, "Be strong and of a good courage"; "Be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed"; "Only be thou strong and very courageous." And it is also the reason He says to us, "Let not your heart he troubled neither let it be afraid." The power of temptation is in the fainting of our own hearts. The enemy knows this well, and always begins his assaults by discouraging us, if it can in any way be accomplished."  written by the pre-pentecostal blessed Quaker Saint -Hannah Whitall Smith P.63  "The Christians Secret of a Happy Life"

Note: Another  factor we have to deal with today is the fact that our world has become unbelievably corrupted. Without murder and the mass murder of war, there would be little left to fill the shelves of your local public library. Without the same lurid displays of blatant acts of sin on TV, there would be little programming left to fill all the channels. Your own computer at home is a major danger. Apparently porn is the main income that keeps the internet profitable! And if that were not enough, the corner store with its newpapers and display of smut stand ready to offend His Spirit.
  To stay cheerful, one must avoid drinking much from the modern information fire hose.  Earnest Seeker  

Use of "the Baptism of the Holy Spirit" as a Theological Term



Earnest Seeker


What Happened in The Upper Room?

The 120 disciples (500 were invited) (11 apostles and their co-workers of Acts 1:12-14) who had been preparing the way of the Lord in prayer in the upper room in Jerusalem. Acts 2:1-4 Prior to the falling of the Spirit upon the multitude at Pentecost they were spiritually prepared by the Lord by being rigourously discipled by Him for three years in a way that those who were later attracted to them by the sound of strange languages emanating from the upper room were not.

But what were the results of this preparation? Let's look at what they already had spiritually before they entered the room -straight from the scripture:

They were already truly Converted
-- This is overwhelmingly proved by the following facts:
They had received the Word: “For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have
received them.” (John 17:8.)
They were persecuted for their unworldliness.
“I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” (John 17:14.) “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” (John 15:19.) Jesus Himself declared that they were branches of the true vine. “I am the vine, ye are the branches.” (John 15:5.) Is it possible for one to be a branch of the vine without being converted?
Also that they were divinely chosen and ordained.
“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit.” (John 15:16.) To say that they were not converted until Pentecost flatly contradicts the repeated and plain declarations of Jesus.
They had wonderful manifestations of Jesus.
“And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.” (Matthew 17:1, 2.) They had forsaken all for Christ. “And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him.” (Luke 5:11.)
Their names were written in heaven.
“Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.” (Luke 10:20.) God was with them. “But ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17.) The false notion that the disciples all backslid at the crucifixion, and were simply reclaimed at Pentecost is clearly disproved by the following texts which refer to them between the resurrection and Pentecost. (Note: they were already functioning in Charismatic gifts, and so they are part of the initial work of salvation rather than the later work of full sanctification.)
They were called to preach.
(Matt. 28:16-20.) Christ would not have thus commissioned backslidden men.
Jesus called them brethren.
He said, “Go to my brethren. (John 20:17.) He would not have called backsliders brethren.
He spoke peace unto them.
“Then said Jesus to them again, peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.” (John 20:21.) He would not have spoken peace to men who were unforgiven.
The testimony of Peter.
“And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee.” (John 21:17.) “When thou art converted” (Luke 22:32) means, as the revised version translates it, “when once thou hast turned again,” and confirms the fact of Peter’s prior conversion.

But They Were Not Fully Sanctified
-- This is also clearly shown by these clear manifestations of their remaining fallen nature:

They were revengeful.
“And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, ye know, not what manner of spirit ye are of.” (Luke 9:54-55.) After Pentecost, like Jesus and Stephen, they could pray, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.”
They were uncharitable and bigoted.
“And John answered Him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy Name, and he followeth not us.” (Mark 9:38.) After Pentecost they could say, “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him.” (Acts 10:34, 35.)
Perfect love had not yet cast out fear.
“Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.” (Matt. 26:56.) After Pentecost they fled no more: “when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marveled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.” (Acts 4:13.)
They were unbelieving.
“Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen Him after he was risen.” (Mark 16:14.)
Their spiritual sight was defective.
“But they were terrified and affrighted and supposed that they had seen a spirit.” (Luke 4:37.)
Jesus promised to sanctify them fully
, and told them to tarry until thus endued. “And behold I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.” (Luke 4:49.)
They were self-seeking.
“But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.” (Mark 9:34.) “And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto Him, saying, master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire. And he said unto them, what would ye that I should do for you? They said unto him, grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.” (Mark 10:35-37.) After Pentecost they preached and practiced the principles proclaimed in 1 Pet. 5:5-6: “Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time.”
They were impatient with each other.
“And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.” (Matt. 20:24.) The fallen nature often breaks out in childish irritability, impatience, and evil speaking. It did in this instance. After they had received the Double Cure instead of this, they were saved from evil speaking, and ready to “lay down their lives for the brethren.”
They were afraid of the Pharisees.
After their hearts were purified by faith they could boldly warn them of sin and hypocrisy, and testify to them the power of an uttermost salvation in the very place where they had crucified the Lord.
They yielded to temptation.
Peter denied Jesus, and they all deserted their Master for the time.
Under the power of the Double Cure they could say from their triumphant experience, “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the Day of Judgment to be punished.” (2 Peter 2:9.) They still were tempted, but were victorious like Jesus.
They were hasty.
“And behold, one of them which was with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword and struck a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.” (Matthew 26:51.) After the upper chamber purification and enduement, they followed the example of Him “who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously.” (1 Peter 2:23.)
They were easily discouraged.
“Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, we also go with thee.” After they had received “the promise of the Father,” (His Rest) they gave themselves wholly to the work of the ministry, “and no earthly honors nor positions were able to divert them from their work, and no opposition weakened their ardor or their perseverance.” Upheld by an unseen One, they were enabled to “resist steadfast in the faith” every evil or diverting influence.
They looked for an earthly kingdom in which they were to be chief.
“When they therefore were come together, they asked of Him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6.) Their spiritual eyes were touched, but they saw things but dimly until they had received the gift of perfect love.
Then “the eyes of their understanding were enlightened,” and they no longer looked for the exaltation of self and worldly interests, but to the coronation of Jesus and the triumphs of His Church. Henceforth they were ready to brave all dangers, so that His kingdom might be established, and eagerly sealed their efforts and their testimony with their blood.
“Matthew was martyred in a city of Ethiopia. Mark was dragged through the streets of Alexandria, Egypt, until he expired. Luke was hanged on an olive-tree in Greece. John was miraculously delivered from a caldron of boiling oil in Rome, and banished to the isle of Patmos, where he was permitted to witness the wonderful apocalyptic vision, and is probably the only one who died a natural death.
Paul was beheaded on Nero’s block outside the gates of Rome. James the Elder was slain with a sword by Herod. James the Less was thrown from a pinnacle of the temple, and beaten to death with a fuller’s club. Andrew was crucified on a cross in Armenia, and preached to the crowd until he expired. Bartholomew was flayed alive by order of a barbarous king. Thomas penetrated all the way to the interior of India, and there suffered martyrdom by having a cruel iron thrust through his body.”
Thus, coming up out of great tribulation, having washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb, they passed through the gates into the City henceforth to serve close by the throne of God.”
Excerpt from "The Double Cure" by Martin Wells Knapp
So the apostles went through BOTH steps of the “Double Cure”. They were all saved during their three years under His Hand. On that day, they received the promise of the Spirit (with tongues) as well as entered His Rest. They were sealed by His Spirit.
The multitudes were not so prepared, and so they only received the first step of the Double Cure. Each received the second step as soon as he or she paid the price of “all” as the apostles before them had. Salvation is not a mere doctrine, but a present-day rejoicing for billions: His Rest is still a present-day opportunity for any believer who will!  (from: The Double Cure by Knapp)







State of Grace versus Quality of Grace
I have always (even before I entered His Rest) made it a practice to keep the joy of His Spirit stirred up within: this has
ussually kept me overflowing. This seldom leaves room for anything within that is not of Joy. But His Spirit works through our volition.  He gives us a "gas pedal" of secret tongues so that we can have as much or as little of His Spirit as we desire and our inward limitations allow.  These pentecostal gifts beautify all who believe with "signs following". These gifts are volitional -this means that we always choose our own degree of manifestation of Him. Apparently most choose the minimum.

His Rest is a subsequent state of grace, found by those few who choose the maximum, just as our initial salvation is a state of grace that is certainly superior to the state of being spiritually lost which is chosen by an even larger majority.  A state of grace speaks of what kind of relationship God has with the believer: whether they are a "son" or a "Son indeed"?

Personally, I use any quality down time, especially while walking or driving as an opportunity to get down to business with Him:

Many believers tend to belittle "speaking in tongues".  But in it's use as a "secret prayer language" it remains my  ultimate secret weapon against any possibility of dryness or lack of spiritual authority.  The tongue is a small thing:

"Indeed, we put bits in horses’ mouths that they may obey us, and we turn their whole body. Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things. See how great a forest a little fire kindles!"  James 3: 3-5

While this gift is itself the least of all gifts..... used properly it can be the agency to ponderously turn huge obstacles with seeming ease.  I consider it the gift of being able to open the gate to His Holy of Holies any moment I choose.  The action is small.  The door is small, but within.....  O within......

That is why I feel the state of Rest we charismatics can enter into, to be incomparably more robust; far less fragile than the state the revered heritage Saints enjoyed and preached so ably.

Back before I entered His Rest in 1988, the best practice I knew was to speak constantly in secret tongues.  I made it my secret practice to share my heart with Him subvocally in tongues as much as possible all day.  It took much discipline over years, but I did come to use this door to stay anointed almost all day while at work.  It was easier after work.  It was my unspoken constant struggle and goal to stay heavily anointed at all times...even in the most intimate of family moments.  

Few ever suspected I was doing this!  He helped in every duty and as far as I know completely hid my distraction!

But I have only been able to actually realize this goal of constant anointing by entering His Rest.  O but now the horizon recedes: it is now my goal to stay not only heavily anointed, but also within the illustrious mantle of His peerless Authority.  For this, I can diligently call upon my old stand-by of tongues, but more often now I just hold my heart-gate open.  I do this deliberately, but on a level of effortless effort similar to breathing.  But I can apply different levels of volition to this to receive different levels of "Authority" and intimacy.

 I eagerly await the removal of this hindering illness (of Mercury poisoning -see the articles page for more info). But for now, I still need to use every kind of creative stewardship to cope with onsets of the strong toxicity symptoms that affect especially my brain and nervous system -and compromise my ability to exercise proper spiritual stewardship.

Grace is paramount, yes, but diligent stewardship is always required here on this earth, even tho' "Pollyanna" may disagree....  

As well as greater grace on earth, we also receive a special Heavenly reward for this diligence in stewardship!

Stances

 In His Spirit, He shares some of His abilities with us, while in His Rest, He shares a portion of His nature that is in harmony with His Father and Himself with us. Abilities, like muscles, are given on a "use it or lose it" basis.  Without exercise muscles will not properly develop, and existing muscles will drastically atrophy.  A dimension, like land, remains.  (Though it does not, if you foolishly sell it...)  (but land is quite an ordeal to buy. -as is His Rest. There are many prior hoops that must be jumped through....)

Let me clarify: although both the foundational blessings of salvation and full sanctification are essentially static rather than dynamic, it is not quite that simple.  Upon the foundation of either; you have a choice of stance:

  • You may sit back and enjoy your new state of grace.  If carried on too long, this stance leads to a slackness which gradually makes the danger of sliding back to your former status increase.
  • You may alertly stand up and walk.  This is certainly much better, but it still does not get you anywhere much.
  • You may eagerly stride forward as a bold explorer would, casting aside every weight that slows him down.   This is by far the best since it takes you from glory to glory and keeps you well over the horizon from the cunning "little foxes" which so abound these days!

What does the "stride forward" stance mean within the context of "His Rest"?  Within His Rest your consecration and faith has been in a degree made One with His consecration and faith -although you are still a mere human and pygmy sized.  My favorite scripture that graphically illustrates this horizon is:

Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying: "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created."  Revelations 4: 9-11